Hotmail and Yahoo

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Hotmail and Yahoo

Otthon Yahoo
Hello,

I have problem to send messages (Hotmail and Yahoo).

...status=bounced (host
mx3.hotmail.com[65.54.244.72] said: 550 SC-001
Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons...

...said: 421 Message temporarily deferred -
4.16.51. Please refer to
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html...


We are a company with cluster servers senders
with dedicated IP only for outgoing emails
(Postfix 2.4.xx, SPF, Sender ID, DomainKeys and Dkim signatures).

I try various configs. in postifx
(smtp_fallback_relay, connection cache,
deadbeats,...), and a lots forms/emails to postmaster´s @hotmail @yahoo.

Best config:
master.cf -> hotmail      unix - - n - 1  smtp
                                     -o smtp_connect_timeout=50s
                                     -o smtp_helo_timeout=20
                                     -o smtp_fallback_relay=hotmail.com


After high volume of messages Yahoo and Hotmail blocks ours IP´s.

Anybody have a definity solution ? Any idea ? The
SenderScore reputation program is confiable ?


Thank´s,

Otthon Coelho
Sao Paulo - Brazil

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Re: Hotmail and Yahoo

Bob001
You will need to contact them and fill up there online forms, proving your identity.
Hotmail might try to pull you in there chargeable program but you can politely refuse it.
I filled up forms for three of them.. yahoo, hotmail and gmail. And thereafter no such messages and everything is fine (at least it appears to be). Message delivery is also extemely fast after fulfilling these formalities.
 
Also, do sign your messages for yahoo and gmail. I am using dkim-proxy for signing dkim and dk.  In addition create and spf record (openspf) in your domain setup at domain provider server.
 
HTH,
Bob.
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:43 AM, Otthon Yahoo <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I have problem to send messages (Hotmail and Yahoo).

...status=bounced (host mx3.hotmail.com[65.54.244.72] said: 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons...

...said: 421 Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html...


We are a company with cluster servers senders with dedicated IP only for outgoing emails (Postfix 2.4.xx, SPF, Sender ID, DomainKeys and Dkim signatures).

I try various configs. in postifx (smtp_fallback_relay, connection cache, deadbeats,...), and a lots forms/emails to postmaster´s @hotmail @yahoo.

Best config:
master.cf -> hotmail      unix - - n - 1  smtp
                                   -o smtp_connect_timeout=50s
                                   -o smtp_helo_timeout=20
                                   -o smtp_fallback_relay=hotmail.com


After high volume of messages Yahoo and Hotmail blocks ours IP´s.

Anybody have a definity solution ? Any idea ? The SenderScore reputation program is confiable ?


Thank´s,

Otthon Coelho
Sao Paulo - Brazil

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Re: Hotmail and Yahoo

Barney Desmond
Forewarning: please excuse my dry sense of humour, I don't mean to
offend anyone, so I apologise if it comes off that way.

> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:43 AM, Otthon Yahoo <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> We are a company with cluster servers senders with dedicated IP only for
>> outgoing emails (Postfix 2.4.xx, SPF, Sender ID, DomainKeys and Dkim
>> signatures).

I work for a hosting provider, we have a customer with a similar
configuration. The customer's server is in turn used by their clients
to send large quantities of mailouts (coupons, special offers, etc. we
don't know for sure as it's not our business). I won't mince words;
many would regard the mailings as "spam".

<aside>
The heathens don't use postfix, by the way; they used to, until they
found a product to spend money on that assured them faster delivery...
Part of the reason I joined the list a short while ago was to post
some benchmarking figures, something I've not seen yet.
</aside>

>> I try various configs. in postifx (smtp_fallback_relay, connection cache,
>> deadbeats,...), and a lots forms/emails to postmaster´s @hotmail @yahoo.
>>
>> After high volume of messages Yahoo and Hotmail blocks ours IP´s.

Do you have control over the recipient email addresses? This is based
purely on collected wisdom from my colleagues and myself, but from
what we can tell Yahoo and Hotmail are *very* strict about failed
addresses. As far as we know, if your MTA attempts too many "RCPT TO:
[hidden email]", you will be severely throttled.

This may be naive (and let me know if that's the case), but our
understanding is that the problem would all but disappear if they used
double opt-in to confirm the validity of the addresses. It's telling
when you look at the recipients and see @hotmial.com and @yahoo.cou.k,
etc. Certainly some recipients would still flag it as spam, but that's
a different matter.

>> Anybody have a definity solution ? Any idea ? The SenderScore reputation
>> program is confiable ?

The definite solution looks to be to send good mail. SPF, Sender ID,
DomainKeys and DKIM are all well and good, but these are anti-abuse
measures, to protect your own identity/reputation. (can anyone provide
a concrete examples of where one of these measures would get a legit
mail "over the line", compared to not having it at all?)

As for SenderScore, it's worth asking what their motives are, and
whether they can actually give you something of value. What is a
sender score? What does that *mean*? Are they getting some sort of
"reputation" data from Yahoo, Hotmail and Gmail? I doubt it. If
anyone's paying for the service, can they tell us what useful info
they give you, or how useful the service really is?


Barney Desmond
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Re: Hotmail and Yahoo

mouss-2
In reply to this post by Otthon Yahoo
Otthon Yahoo wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have problem to send messages (Hotmail and Yahoo).
>
> ...status=bounced (host mx3.hotmail.com[65.54.244.72] said: 550 SC-001
> Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons...
>
> ...said: 421 Message temporarily deferred - 4.16.51. Please refer to
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/defer/defer-06.html...
>
>
> We are a company with cluster servers senders with dedicated IP only for
> outgoing emails (Postfix 2.4.xx, SPF, Sender ID, DomainKeys and Dkim
> signatures).
>
> I try various configs. in postifx (smtp_fallback_relay, connection
> cache, deadbeats,...), and a lots forms/emails to postmaster´s @hotmail
> @yahoo.
>
> Best config:
> master.cf -> hotmail      unix - - n - 1  smtp
>                                     -o smtp_connect_timeout=50s
>                                     -o smtp_helo_timeout=20
>                                     -o smtp_fallback_relay=hotmail.com
>
>
> After high volume of messages Yahoo and Hotmail blocks ours IP´s.
>
> Anybody have a definity solution ? Any idea ? The SenderScore reputation
> program is confiable ?


This is not a postfix issue. you'll need to contact hotmail/yahoo/... so
that they authorize you to send "high volume" mail.

of course, you should not send mail without being certain that the
recipient wants it.

if you relay mail for other companies, it's your problem to make sure
this is "sollicited".