Hotmail spam prevention mech.

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Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda
Hi
This isn't related directly postfix but i could not find true platform to ask. I believe your knowledge is far better than mine and i need little help.

We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook. I've checked over and over again my settings on qmail and dns. Also couple of days ago i raised a ticket on hotmail's support page but no response yet. The real problem is that mails send from our mail server are delivered in spam/junk folder instead of inbox. There are ten domains on this mx and they all have same problem. This leads me to think that problem related my ip or ip subnet. Yes, there are many ip adresses listing in famous blacklists on my subnet.

By the way, this problem only occours on Microsoft's domains. Mail server have valid ptr, spf, dkim and dmarc records. Also spf and dmarc records are strict and doesn't contain relaxed or soft fail parts. I know it is very common issue and every week someone ask guidance like me. I'm also subscribed this mail list and saw couple of mails that mentioned problems like mine. But i did not finish my research.

Are there any others dealing Microsoft's spam mechanism ? If yes, please tell me  what did you do about that ?

On some sort of links Microsoft suggests to follow Return Path's certification program. But i did not deeply look up yet. After a quick scan, i found prices section and they demands subscriptions fee.

I 've heard somethings about that Microsoft checks sender ip networks (whole ip subnet belongs to isp) as well as ip address and uses this information on delivery occurs. But no evidence found yet. Is that a rumor or a fact ?


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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

Jim Reid


> On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.

They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.


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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda
I did not realize that nonexist host names. I believe they basically ignore faults when they produce them but they keep pushing us to follow their requirements.

On 16 Jan 2018 1:59 p.m., "Jim Reid" <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.

They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.



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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

chongma
In reply to this post by Jim Reid
i am also having problems delivering to microsoft domains since sunday. 
i am in their SDNS program and it doesn't show our domain as being
blacklisted.
i contacted their engineers via
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3&locale=en-us&ccsid=636383072583611450 
.  The response was pretty quick but it doesn't seem to have fixed anything

On 16/01/2018 11:59, Jim Reid wrote:
>
>> On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.
> They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.
>
>

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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

Dominic Raferd
In reply to this post by jin&hitman&Barracuda
Please do not top-post on this mailing list...

On 16 January 2018 at 11:20, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I did not realize that nonexist host names. I believe they basically ignore faults when they produce them but they keep pushing us to follow their requirements.
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2018 1:59 p.m., "Jim Reid" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.
>
> They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.


If you continue to have problems with your emails being dropped
instead of delivered to Microsoft domains, see
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866. It has worked for me
and for others.

The only problems I now have are with a very few receiving mailservers
that use TRUSTManager, possibly because they are not updating their
records. I haven't found a proper solution as this software seems to
be used by organisations that are neither big enough nor small enough
to care. My workaround is to use relaying (specified in transport
file) once I have identified a domain with this problem.
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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda
In reply to this post by chongma
I've performed same situation. Actually they responded me with "Sorry, your ip do not qualify for mitigation." It doesn't help me either.



On 16 Jan 2018 2:23 p.m., "Matthew Broadhead" <[hidden email]> wrote:
i am also having problems delivering to microsoft domains since sunday.  i am in their SDNS program and it doesn't show our domain as being blacklisted.
i contacted their engineers via https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=start_1.0.0.0&wfname=capsub&productkey=edfsmsbl3&locale=en-us&ccsid=636383072583611450 .  The response was pretty quick but it doesn't seem to have fixed anything

On 16/01/2018 11:59, Jim Reid wrote:

On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:

We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.
They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.



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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda
In reply to this post by Dominic Raferd



On 16 Jan 2018 2:34 p.m., "Dominic Raferd" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Please do not top-post on this mailing list...

On 16 January 2018 at 11:20, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I did not realize that nonexist host names. I believe they basically ignore faults when they produce them but they keep pushing us to follow their requirements.
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2018 1:59 p.m., "Jim Reid" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.
>
> They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.


If you continue to have problems with your emails being dropped
instead of delivered to Microsoft domains, see
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866. It has worked for me
and for others.

The only problems I now have are with a very few receiving mailservers
that use TRUSTManager, possibly because they are not updating their
records. I haven't found a proper solution as this software seems to
be used by organisations that are neither big enough nor small enough
to care. My workaround is to use relaying (specified in transport
file) once I have identified a domain with this problem.

Hi
I believe the application which i'm using causes top-posting.

In my case, mails not dropped. They actually delivered but not to inbox. 
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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda


On 16 Jan 2018 3:12 p.m., "jin&hitman&Barracuda" <[hidden email]> wrote:



On 16 Jan 2018 2:34 p.m., "Dominic Raferd" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Please do not top-post on this mailing list...

On 16 January 2018 at 11:20, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I did not realize that nonexist host names. I believe they basically ignore faults when they produce them but they keep pushing us to follow their requirements.
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2018 1:59 p.m., "Jim Reid" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:49, jin&hitman&Barracuda <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > We are having difficulties while delivering mails to Microsoft's domains like hotmail and outlook.
>
> They appear to have a DNS problem which is causing outbound mail to fail. Their SMTP servers are using non-existent hostnames when they say HELO. This DNS brokenness may well be wreaking havoc for those using SPF, DKIM, etc when speaking to M$ mail servers or receiving email from them.


If you continue to have problems with your emails being dropped
instead of delivered to Microsoft domains, see
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866. It has worked for me
and for others.

The only problems I now have are with a very few receiving mailservers
that use TRUSTManager, possibly because they are not updating their
records. I haven't found a proper solution as this software seems to
be used by organisations that are neither big enough nor small enough
to care. My workaround is to use relaying (specified in transport
file) once I have identified a domain with this problem.

Hi
I believe the application which i'm using causes top-posting.

In my case, mails not dropped. They actually delivered but not to inbox. 

I started a conversation with my isp and ask them whole subnet's status and spammers in the network. Talos gave enough details about ip address in my subnet. They do not believe the Microsoft categorize subnets. Actually, their answer were quite funny. They said, "why ms want to do that ?"

Now, situation turns convincing my isp to that there are enough reasons on Microsoft side. They want me to proove that. Obviously I should change my isp.
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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

Dominic Raferd
> I started a conversation with my isp and ask them whole subnet's status and
> spammers in the network. Talos gave enough details about ip address in my
> subnet. They do not believe that Microsoft categorize subnets. Actually,
> their answer was quite funny. They said, "why ms want to do that ?"
>
> Now, situation turns to convincing my isp that there are enough reasons on
> Microsoft side. They want me to prove that. Obviously I should change my
> isp.

If that is impractical, get a vps and run your mailserver there.
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Re: Hotmail spam prevention mech.

jin&hitman&Barracuda


On 17 Jan 2018 12:24 p.m., "Dominic Raferd" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I started a conversation with my isp and ask them whole subnet's status and
> spammers in the network. Talos gave enough details about ip address in my
> subnet. They do not believe that Microsoft categorize subnets. Actually,
> their answer was quite funny. They said, "why ms want to do that ?"
>
> Now, situation turns to convincing my isp that there are enough reasons on
> Microsoft side. They want me to prove that. Obviously I should change my
> isp.

If that is impractical, get a vps and run your mailserver there.

It looks like we will do that anyway eventually