Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

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Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
Hello e-mail software developers and users!

I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear relevant
opinion.

I've been using free software happily for a few years, and I found
free/open source alternatives for many popular proprietary tools such as
Facebook, Dropbox, Micro$oft Windows & Office, Youtube, Skype and many
many others. Some of the alternatives are probably known to some of you,
while others are still unknown to many.

But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting. I'm using a Gmail
mailbox and I hate it. So many free and open source mail servers and I
still use Gmail, a closed-source service (which also probably tracks all
my data, including Google searches I do, and uses it for all kinds of
statistics and advertising, but that's another issue). So I asked
myself, why is there no mailbox hosting service which respects user
freedom?

I sent an e-mail to the Free Software Foundation, and got a suggestion
to ask all of you: do you know any free (libre) mail server out there?
If you do, please inform me, and the whole free software community,
developers and users.

I couldn't find any. If nobody else finds any either, the plan is to
start a new server. There are so many server tools and programs, like
the ones you use and develop. It's just like hosting a Git repository or
videos of pictures for the masses. We can do it with e-mail too.

Q: Why don't I start my own personal server?
A: I'm a programmer and I can do it - with some effort, but I can. The
problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer and
non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people can, and
should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who want their
basic freedoms respected.

Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail software,
so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as all other
online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook replacement),
MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo hosting). Is
there a technical issue preventing people from running a mail server, or
it's just a matter of having enough money to run it, and the necessary
technical skills (which many of you probably have).

If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for such a
service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free software
stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the people and
projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a service can
get funds. The point if FREEDOM.

Waiting for response and opinions from you, my fellow free software
community members,
Anatoly Krasner
Free software enthusiast/activist
Israel


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Robert Sander
Am 27.02.2013 22:11, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:

> But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting.

Hi Anatoly,

I am quite sure there are a ton of professional email services that use
only free (libre) software.

The company I work for provides email services (among other things)
which are based on Postfix, Dovecot, Roundcube and other free software.

As the operation of such a system for a large number of users is quite
resource intensive, there may be not as much free (as in beer) services
be available as one would like to have.

But you are always free to start your own. :)

Kindest Regards
--
Robert Sander
--
Treffen Sie uns auf der CeBIT vom 5.-9. März 2013!
Sie finden uns in Halle 6, Open Source Park (F16), Stand 310
--
Heinlein Support GmbH
Schwedter Str. 8/9b, 10119 Berlin

http://www.heinlein-support.de

Tel: 030 / 405051-43
Fax: 030 / 405051-19

Zwangsangaben lt. §35a GmbHG:
HRB 93818 B / Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg,
Geschäftsführer: Peer Heinlein -- Sitz: Berlin
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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

three_jeeps
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
To answer your question: I don't know of any.

To offer some observations:
Assembling 'free software' is only part of the solution.  Acquiring servers+associated hw, shelter, and power sources takes CASH.  Keeping the service running takes CASH.  There is no 'free' business model.

I hate the term 'free software'....people invested their time/energy, it takes power to run their machines (which is not free), the distribution/bugtracking/documentation is not free.  The soft drinks/pizza/name your favorite work food is not free. 

Security and anonymity - how good is it going to be? With the entire network being a drawing card for people wanting to steal something, how is security and anonymity going to be preserved, for free???
If people only knew what is being harvested about them from 'free' services, there would be a revolt. I even hate using gmail, and use it sparingly.

Free mail server - great idea, Implementing it - priceless!

-John


On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 4:11 PM, אנטולי קרסנר <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello e-mail software developers and users!

I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear relevant
opinion.

I've been using free software happily for a few years, and I found
free/open source alternatives for many popular proprietary tools such as
Facebook, Dropbox, Micro$oft Windows & Office, Youtube, Skype and many
many others. Some of the alternatives are probably known to some of you,
while others are still unknown to many.

But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting. I'm using a Gmail
mailbox and I hate it. So many free and open source mail servers and I
still use Gmail, a closed-source service (which also probably tracks all
my data, including Google searches I do, and uses it for all kinds of
statistics and advertising, but that's another issue). So I asked
myself, why is there no mailbox hosting service which respects user
freedom?

I sent an e-mail to the Free Software Foundation, and got a suggestion
to ask all of you: do you know any free (libre) mail server out there?
If you do, please inform me, and the whole free software community,
developers and users.

I couldn't find any. If nobody else finds any either, the plan is to
start a new server. There are so many server tools and programs, like
the ones you use and develop. It's just like hosting a Git repository or
videos of pictures for the masses. We can do it with e-mail too.

Q: Why don't I start my own personal server?
A: I'm a programmer and I can do it - with some effort, but I can. The
problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer and
non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people can, and
should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who want their
basic freedoms respected.

Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail software,
so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as all other
online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook replacement),
MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo hosting). Is
there a technical issue preventing people from running a mail server, or
it's just a matter of having enough money to run it, and the necessary
technical skills (which many of you probably have).

If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for such a
service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free software
stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the people and
projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a service can
get funds. The point if FREEDOM.

Waiting for response and opinions from you, my fellow free software
community members,
Anatoly Krasner
Free software enthusiast/activist
Israel



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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Bennett Todd
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר

The operational cost is non-zero. Besides hardware, which must include backups, and enough physical diversity to offer availability, an email server is an attractive nuisance; spammers and other criminals constantly attempt sabotage and burglary, and it takes ongoing manpower to attempt to hold them temporarily at bay.

And unless you put hard caps on message sizes, people will use their mailboxes as backup drives, or just email their vacation movies to family, and you'll be buying drives, and hence replacing them, often.

I love the idea, I'm fond of running mailservers myself. But I've gone Google.

As for software, I won't pitch my favorite components to this wide list, but I know how to find all the pieces I'd need except the webmail front-end for the utterly non-technical.

If you limited the scope to IMAP and SMTP, both SSL authenticated, it wouldn't be too hard to spec out.

Host on AWS EC3 or the like, then find an affordable solution to spam, and you can sell to anyone who doesn't expect their email to be private from governments.

Anybody know of a well-engineered and maintained SSL library?

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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
In reply to this post by three_jeeps
Hi John and all recipients,

I agree offering such a service without charging for it is impossible
without funding. But "free" means "free like in freedom", not "free
beer". The idea is to respect user freedom, and it has nothing to do
with money. I personally will not mind paying for a hosted mailbox.
Maybe now it's difficult because I'm a student and all my money goes to
the university, but in general, people who have full-time jobs can
easily pay just a small amount every month, and it should be enough to
cover the expenses, if enough people use the new server.

But there's a chance we won't need to charge: we can get funding. There
are SO many organizations which help free software projects, and social
initiatives in general. If we get their support and funding, all we need
is people who can work on that server and maintain it technically.

People already do the same for many other services. It's possible with
e-mail too.

As for size limits, attack attempts and anti-spam:

* size limit: It's okay to limit message size because it doesn't limit
user freedom: mail is for text, not for sending movies. There are free
and open source replacements for Dropbox, and large files can be shared
using free (libre) p2p sharing tools, such as bittorent clients. I
actually encourage people not to send large files. Want to share a
mmovie clip? A photo album? Music? No problem, use the best tool for it.
Share large files using Transmission. Upload albums to social networks
or photo-sharing sites. Upload music to a SparkleShare shared folder or
to a audio/video sharing website. All solutions exist. Otherwise, mail
is great for text and documents. And a picture or two are fine too...

* attack attemps: this is a security issue. Be aware that many
"crackers" want to hurt organizations and cause anarchism, but we're not
a software company. Many hackers and crackers are in fact on our side...
and for the others, we'll setup defenses for the servers. I don't know
much about securing a server, but some people here do, so we have the
knowledge.

* spam - I disagree to charge an extra free for spam filtering. Either
the users sets up rules for filtering messages, or the server uses a
mailbox-wide filter for any incoming messages, but there's no extra fee.
The whole service should be available to every user, or not at all. All
extra services, e.g. contact list and calendar, would come together with
the mailbox. No extra fee for any service. If people need to pay for
usage, they get the whole service for the money they pay.

Anatoly Krasner

On ד', 2013-02-27 at 18:23 -0500, John Hudak wrote:

> To answer your question: I don't know of any.
>
> To offer some observations:
> Assembling 'free software' is only part of the solution.  Acquiring
> servers+associated hw, shelter, and power sources takes CASH.  Keeping
> the service running takes CASH.  There is no 'free' business model.
>
> I hate the term 'free software'....people invested their time/energy,
> it takes power to run their machines (which is not free), the
> distribution/bugtracking/documentation is not free.  The soft
> drinks/pizza/name your favorite work food is not free.  
>
> Security and anonymity - how good is it going to be? With the entire
> network being a drawing card for people wanting to steal something,
> how is security and anonymity going to be preserved, for free???
> If people only knew what is being harvested about them from 'free'
> services, there would be a revolt. I even hate using gmail, and use it
> sparingly.
>
> Free mail server - great idea, Implementing it - priceless!
>
> -John
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 4:11 PM, אנטולי קרסנר <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>         Hello e-mail software developers and users!
>        
>         I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear
>         relevant
>         opinion.
>        
>         I've been using free software happily for a few years, and I
>         found
>         free/open source alternatives for many popular proprietary
>         tools such as
>         Facebook, Dropbox, Micro$oft Windows & Office, Youtube, Skype
>         and many
>         many others. Some of the alternatives are probably known to
>         some of you,
>         while others are still unknown to many.
>        
>         But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting. I'm
>         using a Gmail
>         mailbox and I hate it. So many free and open source mail
>         servers and I
>         still use Gmail, a closed-source service (which also probably
>         tracks all
>         my data, including Google searches I do, and uses it for all
>         kinds of
>         statistics and advertising, but that's another issue). So I
>         asked
>         myself, why is there no mailbox hosting service which respects
>         user
>         freedom?
>        
>         I sent an e-mail to the Free Software Foundation, and got a
>         suggestion
>         to ask all of you: do you know any free (libre) mail server
>         out there?
>         If you do, please inform me, and the whole free software
>         community,
>         developers and users.
>        
>         I couldn't find any. If nobody else finds any either, the plan
>         is to
>         start a new server. There are so many server tools and
>         programs, like
>         the ones you use and develop. It's just like hosting a Git
>         repository or
>         videos of pictures for the masses. We can do it with e-mail
>         too.
>        
>         Q: Why don't I start my own personal server?
>         A: I'm a programmer and I can do it - with some effort, but I
>         can. The
>         problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer
>         and
>         non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people
>         can, and
>         should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who want
>         their
>         basic freedoms respected.
>        
>         Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail
>         software,
>         so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as all
>         other
>         online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook
>         replacement),
>         MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo
>         hosting). Is
>         there a technical issue preventing people from running a mail
>         server, or
>         it's just a matter of having enough money to run it, and the
>         necessary
>         technical skills (which many of you probably have).
>        
>         If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for
>         such a
>         service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free
>         software
>         stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the
>         people and
>         projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a
>         service can
>         get funds. The point if FREEDOM.
>        
>         Waiting for response and opinions from you, my fellow free
>         software
>         community members,
>         Anatoly Krasner
>         Free software enthusiast/activist
>         Israel
>        
>        
>


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
In reply to this post by Bennett Todd
I've written a response to someone else, explaining some issues you
mention here.

A little note on UI: we don't need web UI. It's a good addition but
unnecessary for the beginning. There are many free-software desktop mail
clients. Some are big and complicated, but some are very simple and very
easy to use, just like Gmail is. So UI is not a critical issue right
now, we just need to be able to easily configure a mail client, e.g.
Evolution, to work with the server.

And it's great to hear people like the idea and want to help! With hard
work and cooperation, everything is possible!

- Anatoly Krasner

On ד', 2013-02-27 at 18:39 -0500, Bennett Todd wrote:

> The operational cost is non-zero. Besides hardware, which must include
> backups, and enough physical diversity to offer availability, an email
> server is an attractive nuisance; spammers and other criminals
> constantly attempt sabotage and burglary, and it takes ongoing
> manpower to attempt to hold them temporarily at bay.
>
> And unless you put hard caps on message sizes, people will use their
> mailboxes as backup drives, or just email their vacation movies to
> family, and you'll be buying drives, and hence replacing them, often.
>
> I love the idea, I'm fond of running mailservers myself. But I've gone
> Google.
>
> As for software, I won't pitch my favorite components to this wide
> list, but I know how to find all the pieces I'd need except the
> webmail front-end for the utterly non-technical.
>
> If you limited the scope to IMAP and SMTP, both SSL authenticated, it
> wouldn't be too hard to spec out.
>
> Host on AWS EC3 or the like, then find an affordable solution to spam,
> and you can sell to anyone who doesn't expect their email to be
> private from governments.
>
> Anybody know of a well-engineered and maintained SSL library?
>


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
On ה', 2013-02-28 at 09:33 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 23:11:32 PM +0200, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
> > Hello e-mail software developers and users!
> >
> > I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear relevant
> > opinion.
>
> > ...But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting... why is
> > there no mailbox hosting service which respects user freedom?
> > ...
> > The problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer
> > and non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people
> > can, and should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who
> > want their basic freedoms respected.
> >
> > Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail
> > software, so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as
> > all other online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook
> > replacement), MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo
> > hosting). Is there a technical issue preventing people from running
> > a mail server, or it's just a matter of having enough money to run
> > it, and the necessary technical skills (which many of you probably
> > have).
>
>
> Anatoly,
>
> you practically force (in the good sense, of course) me to ask you
> read very carefully, and spread around as much as possible, these
> posts of mine, which answer EXACTLY the questions you present:
>
> http://stop.zona-m.net/2011/09/what-is-the-real-value-of-gmail-and-why-its-important-to-think-about-alternatives/
>
> Please also read, and spread as much as you see fit, also the links in
> the last paragraph of that post, in which I elaborate on the topic of
> Virtual Personal Email Servers.
>
> Then read this, especially the "what's missing" part that deals
> exactly with the "we technical people should run such servers for
> everybody" point you make:
>
> http://stop.zona-m.net/2013/01/the-alternatives-to-apple-facebook-c-already-exist-shall-we-package-them/
>
> Any feedback is welcome!
>
> Marco F.
> http://mfioretti.com
>
>

Hi Marco (and recipients),

I read the articles and I'd like everybody to have a look too. Focus
thoughts on technology before everything else: Can we setup mail service
which is easy enough to maintain (enough to be reliable) and easy enough
to use, even for non-technical users who use Gmail and Micro$oft
Outlook?

If someone who's familoar with mail software can write some kind of
plan, or at least a list of tools needed for a mail server, I'll be
thankful.

Anatoly Krasner


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
On ה', 2013-02-28 at 10:15 +0100, Georg C. F. Greve wrote:

> On 2013-02-27 22:11, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
> > If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for such a
> > service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free software
> > stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the people and
> > projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a service can
> > get funds. The point if FREEDOM.
>
> Did you see
>
>    
> http://kolabsys.com/news/make-it-your-kolab-kolab-systems-launching-mykolabcom-public-beta
>
> You can sign up at
>
>     https://kolabsys.com/mykolab
>
> for your own personal Kolab 3 based groupware account.
>
> We're currently still in public beta, but are working to turn this into
> a full public service.
>
> It will be paid for (pricing to be announced) but 100% Free Software &
> Open Standards and we'll gladly guarantee that we (a) give no-one access
> to your data outside of what we're required to comply with by law and
> (b) you can get all your data from us whenever you feel like it. Details
> left to be defined, we're working on that.
>
> But the basic idea seems very close to what you describe in your email.
>
> Best regards,
> Georg
>
>

Hello Georg / Kolab Systems,

If I can connect to the Kolab mailbox from any desktop client, including
KMail, Evolution, Thunderbird, and also smaller ones such as Balsa or
even Mutt, then the solution your company offers is great.

But I have some questions:

1. Will the pricing be for the whole service, i.e. you get a mailbox,
spam filter, calendar, etc. paying the same amount every month?

2. I'd like to make the Free mail service as popular as I can, and
encourage people to join. I'd also like it to be a community project
which can receive funding and possibly even run for free (price=0). This
way I can still send a donation, while people who aren't familiar with
free software get a chance to migrate from GMail without paying.

If I told you I have funding for the project, let's say from the FSF, so
your company can get monthly payment, and in return it will run the
service at no cost for individual users, will you agree?

3. If you can't accept the offer to get funding for any reason, I have
another option on my mind. Since you use free software, someone should
be able to setup a private server just like yours. So, that someone can
get funding and thus offer the same service you offer, without charging
for it.

I don't want anyone to lose income as a result of a "copy" server
running the same service for free. I want us all to work together. On
the other hand, I'm not sure I can get funding for a commercial company,
that's why I offer a monthly constant amount of funding money. Maybe it
can work.

What do you think?

- Anatoly Krasner

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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

M. Fioretti-2
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 11:51:10 AM +0200, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:

> Hi Marco (and recipients),
>
> I read the articles and I'd like everybody to have a look too. Focus
> thoughts on technology before everything else: Can we setup mail service
> which is easy enough to maintain (enough to be reliable) and easy enough
> to use, even for non-technical users who use Gmail and Micro$oft
> Outlook?
>
> If someone who's familoar with mail software can write some kind of
> plan, or at least a list of tools needed for a mail server, I'll be
> thankful.

??? Anatoly, the list you are asking for is in one the links I had already
sent to you:

http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/wanted-virtual-personal-email-servers/

Marco
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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
Sorry, I missed that list...

Two options are being examined:

1. Start a new server (I'll need your help here because I never worked
with servers)

2. Use the MyKolab service. It saves all the hard work, but it's still
in beta stage and it's going to cost money to use it. So I'm trying to
get funding so that a basic mailbox service is available for no cost
(unless you donate to the funds supplier, which would be very nice)

Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
student) to setup and maintain a mail server, so if it depends on me -
it would take a few years at least... so I rely on MyKolab.

Other mail services exist (e.g. gandi.net uses RoundCube), proving a
practical usable solution exists.

If anyone wants to start a new service independent of any company like
Kolab Systems - you're welcome. I'll help you with pleasure if there's
anything I can do. Just contact me by e-mail :-)

SUMMARY OF CURRENT STATUS: waiting to see if we can get funding /
waiting to see if someone can and wants to start a server

NOTE: Starting a server doesn't mean you pay everything by yourself: A
proof of a working service beta is enough to show people and get
funding. Many open-source and free-software support organizations exist,
which are non-profit and work using donations. A Free (libre) mail
server is the perfect project for them to invest in (i.e. fund).

I'll update when more news/responses arrive.

- Anatoly Krasner

On ה', 2013-02-28 at 15:55 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 11:51:10 AM +0200, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
>
> > Hi Marco (and recipients),
> >
> > I read the articles and I'd like everybody to have a look too. Focus
> > thoughts on technology before everything else: Can we setup mail service
> > which is easy enough to maintain (enough to be reliable) and easy enough
> > to use, even for non-technical users who use Gmail and Micro$oft
> > Outlook?
> >
> > If someone who's familoar with mail software can write some kind of
> > plan, or at least a list of tools needed for a mail server, I'll be
> > thankful.
>
> ??? Anatoly, the list you are asking for is in one the links I had already
> sent to you:
>
> http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/wanted-virtual-personal-email-servers/
>
> Marco


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Reindl Harald-2


Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
> Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
> student) to setup and maintain a mail server

and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have
the time because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot
of time, especially if you try to open it for everybody because
you can guess how many idiots you get as users which only
abuse your service with spam and misuse

as always: you get what you pay for


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
You pay nothing to Google but get an excellent mailbox. Not libre, but
it does the job. Many people volunteer for free software. Somehow they
find time. I realize a reliable server needs people to work on it
full-time, it's not just a little web application you write in 10
minutes.

But that's why I'm trying to get funding. If expenses can be covered,
that solves the problem.

You're right, there's no magic solution.

It's not simple, but possible. And look at MyKolab. There you go, it's a
company which plans to launch a libre mailbox service! Yes, users will
have to pay money. Yes, I'm trying to get the project funded so that
people can get exposed to free software and software freedom, and
migrate from GMail, at no cost.

Like I said, I'll update when there's new information.

On ה', 2013-02-28 at 16:35 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:

>
> Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
> > Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
> > student) to setup and maintain a mail server
>
> and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have
> the time because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot
> of time, especially if you try to open it for everybody because
> you can guess how many idiots you get as users which only
> abuse your service with spam and misuse
>
> as always: you get what you pay for
>


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Deeztek.com Support
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
On 2/27/2013 4:11 PM, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:

> Hello e-mail software developers and users!
>
> I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear relevant
> opinion.
>
> I've been using free software happily for a few years, and I found
> free/open source alternatives for many popular proprietary tools such as
> Facebook, Dropbox, Micro$oft Windows & Office, Youtube, Skype and many
> many others. Some of the alternatives are probably known to some of you,
> while others are still unknown to many.
>
> But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting. I'm using a Gmail
> mailbox and I hate it. So many free and open source mail servers and I
> still use Gmail, a closed-source service (which also probably tracks all
> my data, including Google searches I do, and uses it for all kinds of
> statistics and advertising, but that's another issue). So I asked
> myself, why is there no mailbox hosting service which respects user
> freedom?
>
> I sent an e-mail to the Free Software Foundation, and got a suggestion
> to ask all of you: do you know any free (libre) mail server out there?
> If you do, please inform me, and the whole free software community,
> developers and users.
>
> I couldn't find any. If nobody else finds any either, the plan is to
> start a new server. There are so many server tools and programs, like
> the ones you use and develop. It's just like hosting a Git repository or
> videos of pictures for the masses. We can do it with e-mail too.
>
> Q: Why don't I start my own personal server?
> A: I'm a programmer and I can do it - with some effort, but I can. The
> problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer and
> non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people can, and
> should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who want their
> basic freedoms respected.
>
> Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail software,
> so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as all other
> online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook replacement),
> MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo hosting). Is
> there a technical issue preventing people from running a mail server, or
> it's just a matter of having enough money to run it, and the necessary
> technical skills (which many of you probably have).
>
> If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for such a
> service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free software
> stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the people and
> projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a service can
> get funds. The point if FREEDOM.
>
> Waiting for response and opinions from you, my fellow free software
> community members,
> Anatoly Krasner
> Free software enthusiast/activist
> Israel
>
>
If you are looking for a free email service that respects your privacy
built on top of open source software, we certainly offer something like
that. It's built on top of postfix,courier, egroupware and we offer 5GB
mailboxes, Secure IMAP, Secure POP3, Secure SMTP, calendar, tasks and
contacts. We guarantee not to share or sell your private information to
anyone for any reason unless of course we are presented with a court
order requiring us to do so :) Heck, we don't even serve ads. We are on
the initial stages of rolling it out (out website is still under
construction but the e-mail hosting works fine) but you are more than
welcome to try it out if you like:

https://www.deeztek.com:449/deeztek_free_mail_signup.cfm

Thanks


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Jim Seymour-2
Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?

Regards,
Jim
--
Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
filtering.  If you reply to this email and your email is
rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

אנטולי קרסנר
No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.

The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
filling their mailbox with spam :)

Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
issues discussed...

- Anatoly Krasner

On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
> Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?
>
> Regards,
> Jim


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Reindl Harald-2
the point is that this list is for TECHNICAL support
of postfix itself, so it is for the admins which are
installing, configureing and maintaining postfix
servers, most of them are admins for business

Am 28.02.2013 17:51, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:

> No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
> users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
> tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
> chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.
>
> The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
> filling their mailbox with spam :)
>
> Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
> issues discussed...
>
> - Anatoly Krasner
>
> On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
>> Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Jim Seymour-2
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:51:15 +0200
אנטולי קרסנר  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
> users ...

The mailing list I thought was supposed to be about Postfix, or at
least vaguely Postfix-related, issues. By your logic: If I want to
interact with all Postfix users on the subject of motorcycle repair,
then it would be on-topic, because it's only Postfix users with whom I
wish to discuss motorcycle repair?

Regards,
Jim
--
Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
filtering.  If you reply to this email and your email is
rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

M. Fioretti-2
In reply to this post by Reindl Harald-2
MANDATORY DISCLAIMER:

- I think this is at least partly on topic here because it's (also)
  about promoting postfix for "free-as-in-freedom", responsible email
  usage,

- but personally, I don't need any of what follows. I already built
  nexaima.net to do it for me, and it's meant to stay that way, that
  is for me only

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 16:35:08 PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:

>
> Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
> > Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
> > student) to setup and maintain a mail server
>
> and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have the time
> because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot of time,
> especially if you try to open it for everybody because you can guess
> how many idiots you get as users which only abuse your service with
> spam and misuse

Anatoly will speak for himself, but the proposal in _my_ own posts is
quite different from what you outline here.

What I proposed is a VPS package, just as the ones _already "sold" by
many hosting providers, that unlike those packages is not a bare-bone
linux distro, but is preconfigured with SMTP/Imap server etc... in
order to:

1) accept incoming email only for one domain and set of users
2) relay email only for THAT domain and set of users

The owner of every "package" would only be responsible for the abuses
of his own users. The hosting provider may impose bandwidth limits in
advance. And 1 and 2 would be configurable by web interface.
Basically, this is exactly the SAME thing many hosting providers
already offer, just packaged in a way that it is much, much easier to
migrate the whole thing to another server, in any moment, without
reconfiguring everything from scratch.

As to "who would fund development of this bundle": I guess the same
people who "fund" Centos, Debian, Postfix and lots of other software,
in the same way, for the same reasons. If there's money to be made
(more or less indirectly) in hosting VPS server for WWW applications,
there is also, IMO, in doing the same thing for email.

Marco
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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

John Peach-2
In reply to this post by Jim Seymour-2
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:00:58 -0500
James Seymour <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:51:15 +0200
> אנטולי קרסנר  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
> > users ...
>
> The mailing list I thought was supposed to be about Postfix, or at
> least vaguely Postfix-related, issues. By your logic: If I want to
> interact with all Postfix users on the subject of motorcycle repair,
> then it would be on-topic, because it's only Postfix users with whom I
> wish to discuss motorcycle repair?

+1


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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

Robert Schetterer-2
In reply to this post by אנטולי קרסנר
Am 28.02.2013 17:51, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:

> No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
> users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
> tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
> chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.
>
> The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
> filling their mailbox with spam :)
>
> Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
> issues discussed...
>
> - Anatoly Krasner
>
> On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
>> Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jim
>
>

Hi Anatoly, i like your idea, mmy meaning
as you massive crossposted, you should have all info you need now

There are people willing to help you, but you should have learned
massive mail services are expensive to host for logical reasons.

Go now offlist contact ,and show some i.e finance plan at interested
people etc.
Lists are typical for solving tec stuff ( here postfix ), maybe do some
blog for more issuses you want to discuss


Best Regards
MfG Robert Schetterer

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