Strange lack of SMTP rejections

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Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Russell Jones-5
For some reason, if a local user sends mail to another local user who
doesn't exist, my Postfix installation doesn't seem to notify the sender
of the error, nor deliver a bounce message to the sender.

Log snippet of what I am talking about:

Sep 28 00:29:48 server2 dovecot: imap-login: Login:
user=<[hidden email]>, method=PLAIN, rip=::ffff:98.197.128.40,
lip=::ffff:69.164.197.129
Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: connect from
c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]
Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]: 550 5.1.1
<[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
virtual alias table; from=<[hidden email]>
to=<[hidden email]> proto=ESMTP helo=<RussellDesktop>
Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: disconnect from
c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]


I am [hidden email]. You can see that postfix notices that the user
does not exist. However, I never get a message about it! No popup, no
bounce message, nothing. This occurs on both Thunderbird and Windows
Mail. Furthormore, Procmail's procmail.log also has no entries about any
bounce message being delivered, so I know that the message isn't getting
sneaked off to root or somewhere else it shouldn't be going.

On my older, production Exim server, ths popup occurs immediately.

Any ideas? Appreciate the help.


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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Charles Marcus
On 9/28/2009, Russell Jones ([hidden email]) wrote:
> On my older, production Exim server, ths popup occurs immediately.

Per the welcome message you received when you joined the list:

TO REPORT A PROBLEM see:
http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html#mail

At a minimum, postfix version and output of postconf -n should be
provided...

--

Best regards,

Charles
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Noel Jones-2
In reply to this post by Russell Jones-5
On 9/28/2009 12:41 AM, Russell Jones wrote:

> For some reason, if a local user sends mail to another local user who
> doesn't exist, my Postfix installation doesn't seem to notify the sender
> of the error, nor deliver a bounce message to the sender.
>
> Log snippet of what I am talking about:
>
> Sep 28 00:29:48 server2 dovecot: imap-login: Login:
> user=<[hidden email]>, method=PLAIN, rip=::ffff:98.197.128.40,
> lip=::ffff:69.164.197.129
> Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: connect from
> c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]
> Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]: 550 5.1.1
> <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
> virtual alias table; from=<[hidden email]>
> to=<[hidden email]> proto=ESMTP helo=<RussellDesktop>
> Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: disconnect from
> c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]
>
>
> I am [hidden email]. You can see that postfix notices that the user
> does not exist. However, I never get a message about it! No popup, no
> bounce message, nothing. This occurs on both Thunderbird and Windows
> Mail. Furthormore, Procmail's procmail.log also has no entries about any
> bounce message being delivered, so I know that the message isn't getting
> sneaked off to root or somewhere else it shouldn't be going.
>
> On my older, production Exim server, ths popup occurs immediately.
>
> Any ideas? Appreciate the help.
>
>

Postfix correctly rejects the mail, and there is no bounce
message sent.  There's no further action for postfix to take.

If your client doesn't notify you that the mail can't be
delivered, it's a client configuration problem.

   -- Noel Jones
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Wietse Venema
In reply to this post by Russell Jones-5
Russell Jones:
> For some reason, if a local user sends mail to another local user who
> doesn't exist, my Postfix installation doesn't seem to notify the sender
> of the error, nor deliver a bounce message to the sender.
...
> Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]: 550 5.1.1
> <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in

The 550 (and 5.1.1) response inform the SMTP client that the recipient
address is invalid.

If the SMTP client does not inform you, then that is a client problem.

These SMTP server responses are actually standardized.

If the exim server does not implement standard responses for invalid
recipient addresses, that is better discussed on an exim mailing
list.

        Wietse
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Russell Jones-5
On 27-Sep-2009, at 23:41, Russell Jones wrote:
> Sep 28 00:29:58 server2 postfix/smtpd[3447]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT  
> from c-98-197-128-40.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[98.197.128.40]: 550 5.1.1 <[hidden email]
> >: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table;  
> from=<[hidden email]>

"550 5.1.1 <[hidden email]>: Recipient address rejected: User  
unknown in virtual alias table;" is a notification to the sender. If  
your MUA or something is eating it, that's not really postfix's fault.

Windows mail, at least, is maniacal about concealing errors from the  
user, as I recall.

--
2 is not equal to 3, not even for large values of 2.
        Grabel's Law

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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Charles Marcus
In reply to this post by Noel Jones-2
On 9/28/2009 7:19 AM, Noel Jones wrote:
>> For some reason, if a local user sends mail to another local user who

> If your client doesn't notify you that the mail can't be delivered, it's
> a client configuration problem.

It sounds to me like this postfix instance *is* the client... or, it is
the server that is both sending and receiving (note the 'local'
reference above) the mail.

Although, his log didn't show the sending part, nor did he provide
postconf -n output, so maybe his description was wrong...

--

Best regards,

Charles
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Russell Jones-5
In reply to this post by Russell Jones-5
Actually that's all the logs show when sending to a non-existent address
that resides on the same physical server, but I got it figured it.

Believe it or not, it was actually my AVG antivirus. It turns out that
when scanning outgoing mail, by default AVG will use its own "Auto SMTP
server". For some reason it was preventing my client from receiving the
errors. When disabling this "auto smtp server", the popups regarding
invalid user is received properly by Thunderbird and Windows Mail.

Go figure.
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

Noel Jones-2
On 9/28/2009 9:40 AM, Russell Jones wrote:

> Actually that's all the logs show when sending to a non-existent address
> that resides on the same physical server, but I got it figured it.
>
> Believe it or not, it was actually my AVG antivirus. It turns out that
> when scanning outgoing mail, by default AVG will use its own "Auto SMTP
> server". For some reason it was preventing my client from receiving the
> errors. When disabling this "auto smtp server", the popups regarding
> invalid user is received properly by Thunderbird and Windows Mail.
>
> Go figure.

Windows antivirus products have a rich history of breaking
SMTP in non-obvious ways, although I don't remember this
particular symptom coming up before.  I should have suggested
disabling your windows AV for testing - my bad.

Thanks for sharing the solution for anyone reading the archives.

  -- Noel Jones
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

mouss-4
In reply to this post by Charles Marcus
Charles Marcus wrote:

> On 9/28/2009 7:19 AM, Noel Jones wrote:
>>> For some reason, if a local user sends mail to another local user who
>
>> If your client doesn't notify you that the mail can't be delivered, it's
>> a client configuration problem.
>
> It sounds to me like this postfix instance *is* the client... or, it is
> the server that is both sending and receiving (note the 'local'
> reference above) the mail.
>

you're confused. postfix is not a client here. postfix, as a server,
rejected the message. the client, which connected to postfix, is
responsible of propagating the error.

> Although, his log didn't show the sending part, nor did he provide
> postconf -n output, so maybe his description was wrong...



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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

mouss-4
In reply to this post by Russell Jones-5
Russell Jones wrote:

> Actually that's all the logs show when sending to a non-existent address
> that resides on the same physical server, but I got it figured it.
>
> Believe it or not, it was actually my AVG antivirus. It turns out that
> when scanning outgoing mail, by default AVG will use its own "Auto SMTP
> server". For some reason it was preventing my client from receiving the
> errors. When disabling this "auto smtp server", the popups regarding
> invalid user is received properly by Thunderbird and Windows Mail.
>
> Go figure.

yeah....

just to "enrich the knowledge base", what Av was this?
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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

d.hill
Quoting mouss <[hidden email]>:

> Russell Jones wrote:
>> Actually that's all the logs show when sending to a non-existent address
>> that resides on the same physical server, but I got it figured it.
>>
>> Believe it or not, it was actually my AVG antivirus. It turns out that
>> when scanning outgoing mail, by default AVG will use its own "Auto SMTP
>> server". For some reason it was preventing my client from receiving the
>> errors. When disabling this "auto smtp server", the popups regarding
>> invalid user is received properly by Thunderbird and Windows Mail.
>>
>> Go figure.
>
> yeah....
>
> just to "enrich the knowledge base", what Av was this?

AVG (http://www.avg.com). It was mentioned.

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Re: Strange lack of SMTP rejections

mouss-4
[hidden email] wrote:

> Quoting mouss <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Russell Jones wrote:
>>> Actually that's all the logs show when sending to a non-existent address
>>> that resides on the same physical server, but I got it figured it.
>>>
>>> Believe it or not, it was actually my AVG antivirus. It turns out that
>>> when scanning outgoing mail, by default AVG will use its own "Auto SMTP
>>> server". For some reason it was preventing my client from receiving the
>>> errors. When disabling this "auto smtp server", the popups regarding
>>> invalid user is received properly by Thunderbird and Windows Mail.
>>>
>>> Go figure.
>>
>> yeah....
>>
>> just to "enrich the knowledge base", what Av was this?
>
> AVG (http://www.avg.com). It was mentioned.
>

yeah. me silly.  I was about to buy glasses. fortunately, I realised
that I should buy a brain instead :)