why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

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why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Andy Spiegl-7
I am running the same configuration on a Debian 3.1 (postfix 2.1.5)
and a Debian 4.0 (postfix 2.3.8) server.

In the logs of the newer postfix I see that it 's reloading it's
configuration every minute:

May  7 15:42:37 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: daemon started -- version 2.3.8, configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:42:59 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:43:01 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:44:02 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:45:00 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:46:16 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:47:15 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:48:12 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:49:11 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:50:11 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:50:27 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18400]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:50:32 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18400]: lost connection after CONNECT from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:50:32 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18400]: disconnect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:50:59 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:51:05 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18499]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:51:15 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:51:18 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:51:19 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18499]: lost connection after CONNECT from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:51:19 ersatz postfix/smtpd[18499]: disconnect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
May  7 15:52:05 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:52:08 ersatz postfix/master[15741]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
May  7 15:53:08 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:54:06 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:56:02 ersatz last message repeated 3 times
May  7 15:57:01 ersatz last message repeated 2 times
May  7 15:58:00 ersatz last message repeated 2 times

Is that the normal (and wanted?) behavior?

Thanks,
 Andy.

# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
bounce_notice_recipient = postmaster
bounce_queue_lifetime = 3d
config_directory = /etc/postfix
default_process_limit = 100
delay_notice_recipient = postmaster
error_notice_recipient = postmaster
html_directory = no
inet_interfaces = loopback-only
inet_protocols = ipv4
mailbox_command =
mailbox_size_limit = 0
maximal_queue_lifetime = 3d
mydestination =
myhostname = postfix.ersatz.akte.de
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
myorigin = /etc/mailname
notify_classes = resource, software, 2bounce, software, delay
recipient_delimiter =
relayhost =
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Debian/GNU)

--
 Butterflies. If you throw it.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Wietse Venema
Andy Spiegl:
> I am running the same configuration on a Debian 3.1 (postfix 2.1.5)
> and a Debian 4.0 (postfix 2.3.8) server.
>
> In the logs of the newer postfix I see that it 's reloading it's
> configuration every minute:

Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.
It is bad for Postfix performance.

        Wietse
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Andy Spiegl-7
On 2008-05-07, 15:50, Wietse Venema wrote:

> Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.

Is there a cron job???  That was my first suspect, too.
But I can't find one!  Hidden inside some postfix conf maybe???

Thanks,
 Andy.


--
 "Software is like sex: it's better if it's free!"  (Linus Torvalds)
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Ralf Hildebrandt
* Andy Spiegl <[hidden email]>:
> On 2008-05-07, 15:50, Wietse Venema wrote:
>
> > Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.
>
> Is there a cron job???  That was my first suspect, too.
> But I can't find one!  Hidden inside some postfix conf maybe???

No. Hint: Simply rename "postfix" to "postfix.foo" and see which
program starts to throw errors.

--
Ralf Hildebrandt ([hidden email])          [hidden email]
Postfix - Einrichtung, Betrieb und Wartung       Tel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155
http://www.arschkrebs.de
With searching comes loss
and the presence of absence:
"My Novel" not found.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Wietse Venema
In reply to this post by Andy Spiegl-7
Andy Spiegl:
> On 2008-05-07, 15:50, Wietse Venema wrote:
>
> > Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.
>
> Is there a cron job???  That was my first suspect, too.
> But I can't find one!  Hidden inside some postfix conf maybe???

Sorry, I do NOT distribute such idiot software. Complain
to your vendor, or ask the person who installed Postfix
for you.

        Wietse
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Tomasz Suchodolski
In reply to this post by Andy Spiegl-7
2008/5/8 Andy Spiegl <[hidden email]>:
On 2008-05-07, 15:50, Wietse Venema wrote:

> Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.

Is there a cron job???  That was my first suspect, too.
But I can't find one!  Hidden inside some postfix conf maybe???

Thanks,
 Andy.


--
Look --> /etc/network/if-down.d/

Tomasz
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Arne Hoffmann-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Hildebrandt
Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

> > > Kill the cron job that executes "postfix reload" every minute.
> >
> > Is there a cron job???  That was my first suspect, too.
> > But I can't find one!  

Doesn't have to be cron, could be something like cfengine or similar.

> No. Hint: Simply rename "postfix" to "postfix.foo" and see which
> program starts to throw errors.

The command that does this doesn't have to be "postfix reload". Maybe it's
"pkill -HUP master" or "kill -HUP $(</var/spool/postfix/pid/master.pid)".

Andy, please try this:

find /etc -type f -exec grep -H kill.*master {} \;


Also search in /root and /usr/local/bin.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Andy Spiegl-7
On 2008-05-08, 14:22, Arne Hoffmann wrote:

> Andy, please try this:
> find /etc -type f -exec grep -H kill.*master {} \;
> Also search in /root and /usr/local/bin.

This only finds
 /etc/postfix/postfix-script

If I remove it I see this in the logs:  :-)
 May  8 14:50:49 ersatz postfix[3758]: fatal: /etc/postfix/postfix-script: No such file or directory

On 2008-05-08, 13:56, Tomasz Suchodolski wrote:
> Look --> /etc/network/if-down.d/

Yes, there are postfix scripts, but it's only called when a network
interface goes up or down.  But just to be sure, I removed them.
But didn't help.

Very strange!
 Andy.

--
 Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix"

Victor Duchovni
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 02:56:05PM +0200, Andy Spiegl wrote:

> On 2008-05-08, 14:22, Arne Hoffmann wrote:
>
> > Andy, please try this:
> > find /etc -type f -exec grep -H kill.*master {} \;
> > Also search in /root and /usr/local/bin.
>
> This only finds
>  /etc/postfix/postfix-script
>
> If I remove it I see this in the logs:  :-)

Time to re-install Postfix.

--
        Viktor.

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the "Reply-To" header.

To unsubscribe from the postfix-users list, visit
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Andy Spiegl-7
In reply to this post by Ralf Hildebrandt
I found the culprit: bind9 causes postfix to reload.

The whole problem is a combination with a watchdog that checks whether
bind is running correctly.  It uses "rndc status" which seems to have
a bug in Debian 4.0:
  # rndc status
  rndc: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libbind9.so.0: undefined symbol: isc_net_pton

As this test fails, it kills and restarts bind.
This happens every minute.

The only part that I still don't understand (but doesn't matter anymore):

   How are bind and postfix connected???

Thanks for your great help to all!
 Andy.

--
 "Managing senior programmers is like herding cats."  --Dave Platt
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Victor Duchovni
On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 06:08:26PM +0200, Andy Spiegl wrote:

> I found the culprit: bind9 causes postfix to reload.
>
> The whole problem is a combination with a watchdog that checks whether
> bind is running correctly.  It uses "rndc status" which seems to have
> a bug in Debian 4.0:
>   # rndc status
>   rndc: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libbind9.so.0: undefined symbol: isc_net_pton
>
> As this test fails, it kills and restarts bind.
> This happens every minute.
>
> The only part that I still don't understand (but doesn't matter anymore):
>
>    How are bind and postfix connected???
>

You have not found the culprit if you have no idea how these are
connected.

Rebuild the system, the breakage you report should not be tolerated in
production systems. If Debian 4.0 is broken when correcty installed,
don't use Debian 4.0.

--
        Viktor.

Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored.
Please do not ignore the "Reply-To" header.

To unsubscribe from the postfix-users list, visit
http://www.postfix.org/lists.html or click the link below:
<mailto:[hidden email]?body=unsubscribe%20postfix-users>

If my response solves your problem, the best way to thank me is to not
send an "it worked, thanks" follow-up. If you must respond, please put
"It worked, thanks" in the "Subject" so I can delete these quickly.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Ralf Hildebrandt
* Victor Duchovni <[hidden email]>:

> production systems. If Debian 4.0 is broken when correcty installed,
> don't use Debian 4.0.

Rest assured, it isn't :)

--
Ralf Hildebrandt ([hidden email])          [hidden email]
Postfix - Einrichtung, Betrieb und Wartung       Tel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155
http://www.arschkrebs.de
Real programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers are around
at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Arne Hoffmann-2
In reply to this post by Andy Spiegl-7
Andy Spiegl wrote:
> I found the culprit: bind9 causes postfix to reload.
>
> The whole problem is a combination with a watchdog that checks whether
> bind is running correctly.  It uses "rndc status" which seems to have
> a bug in Debian 4.0:
>   # rndc status
>   rndc: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libbind9.so.0: undefined symbol: isc_net_pton

root@nell:~# cat /etc/debian_version
4.0
root@nell:~# rndc status
number of zones: 6
debug level: 0
xfers running: 0
xfers deferred: 0
soa queries in progress: 0
query logging is OFF
recursive clients: 0/1000
tcp clients: 0/100
server is up and running
root@nell:~#

Your system is broken.

> As this test fails, it kills and restarts bind.

1)  watchdog can check your system with a *custom* script. Config parameter:
    'test-binary = /path/to/script'. There is no test-binary in the default config.

2)  In case of a problem (return code of test-binary != 0) watchdog executes
    a 'repair-binary'.

3)  By default there is no repair-binary configured, but there is an
    *example* script: /usr/share/doc/watchdog/examples/repair.sh

> The only part that I still don't understand (but doesn't matter anymore):
>    How are bind and postfix connected???

4)  the repair-binary is called with the exit code of the test-binary. In
    case of repair.sh: If $1 is 100 or 101 it basically does a
    '/etc/init.d/networking restart'. This leads to the execution of
    /etc/network/if-down.d/postfix which in turn leads to a 'postfix
    reload'.

5)  The command 'rndc status' doesn't appear in watchdogs default config or
    in one of the supplied example scripts. Somebody wrote a custom
    test-binary an screwed up.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Bill Cole-3
In reply to this post by Andy Spiegl-7
At 6:08 PM +0200 5/8/08, Andy Spiegl wrote:
>I found the culprit: bind9 causes postfix to reload.

That is not normally the case. I have run BIND 9 and Postfix together
on the same machine on a variety of OS's and never have seen them
interact as you describe.

>The whole problem is a combination with a watchdog that checks whether
>bind is running correctly.  It uses "rndc status" which seems to have
>a bug in Debian 4.0:
>   # rndc status
>   rndc: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libbind9.so.0: undefined
>symbol: isc_net_pton
>
>As this test fails, it kills and restarts bind.
>This happens every minute.

That sounds like a broken "watchdog" and a broken installation of BIND.

>The only part that I still don't understand (but doesn't matter anymore):
>
>    How are bind and postfix connected???

They normally are not. I'm just guessing, but I'd say that whatever
that broken watchdog is doing when it "restarts bind" is also
restarting Postfix, which is a pointless and likely harmful behavior.

You probably need to do 3 things:

1. Fix your BIND installation so that you have a working rndc
2. Fix your watchdog so that it can tell the difference between a
test that cannot run and a test that runs but gets a bad result.
3. Fix your watchdog so that it responds to detected failures with
specific corrective actions narrowly focused on the actually detected
failure.


--
Bill Cole
[hidden email]

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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Andy Spiegl-7
In reply to this post by Arne Hoffmann-2
On 2008-05-08, 19:43, Arne Hoffmann wrote:
> root@nell:~# cat /etc/debian_version
> 4.0
> root@nell:~# rndc status
> number of zones: 6
...
Yepp, I am aware that there is a problem specific to my setup.
On a cleanly setup server with etch I can't see the same behavior
either.  It would have really surprised me if the bind of Debian 4.0
were so broken.  My suspicion is that some old (sarge) libraries are
still hanging around - gotta test that.

> 1)  watchdog can check your system ...
We are not using _the_ watchdog, but _a_ watchdog. (self written)
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

On 2008-05-08, 14:09, Bill Cole wrote:
> That is not normally the case. I have run BIND 9 and Postfix
> together on the same machine on a variety of OS's and never have
> seen them interact as you describe.
Strange.  Here, "/etc/init.d/bind9 stop" or "... start" immediately
leads to this line in the postfix log:
  postfix/master[14598]: reload configuration /etc/postfix

This happens even after I stop all services except postfix, bind and
sshd on this machine (see process list below).  Setting back bind to
its defaults didn't help either.

> They normally are not. I'm just guessing, but I'd say that whatever
> that broken watchdog is doing when it "restarts bind" is also
> restarting Postfix, which is a pointless and likely harmful
> behavior.
I checked: no, it just checks the nameserver (actually not using rndc
but a call to "/usr/bin/host some.host localhost" which was failing
because of the library error, too) and restarts it.

And I just discovered that I can reproduce this behavior on servers
with Debian 3.1 (sarge):

 debian31:~#/etc/init.d/bind9 restart
 Stopping domain name service: named.
 Starting domain name service: named.

 debian31:~#tailf /var/log/mail.log
...
 May  9 11:34:01 debian31 postfix/postfix-script: refreshing the Postfix mail system
 May  9 11:34:05 debian31 postfix/master[20563]: reload configuration
...
 May  9 11:34:07 debian31 postfix/postfix-script: refreshing the Postfix mail system
 May  9 11:34:07 debian31 postfix/master[20563]: reload configuration
...

So, either one bind or postfix is smarter than we thought so far.

Thanks,
 Andy.


PS:

USER       PID  PPID S CPU %MEM   RSS    VSZ  START     ELAPSED   TIME CMD
bind     15794     1 S   -  0.3  7912  19044  11:23       01:37   0:00 /usr/sbin/named -u bind
postfix  15851 14598 S   -  0.0  1564   4824  11:23       01:36   0:00 pickup -l -t fifo -u -c
postfix  15855 14598 S   -  0.0  1596   4856  11:23       01:36   0:00 qmgr -l -t fifo -u
root         1     0 S   -  0.0   644   1948  18:19    17:05:28   0:01 init [2]  
root         2     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [migration/0]
root         3     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [ksoftirqd/0]
root         4     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [migration/1]
root         5     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [ksoftirqd/1]
root         6     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [events/0]
root         7     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [events/1]
root         8     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [khelper]
root         9     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kthread]
root        13     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kblockd/0]
root        14     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kblockd/1]
root        15     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kacpid]
root       101     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kseriod]
root       145     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [pdflush]
root       146     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [pdflush]
root       147     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [kswapd0]
root       148     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [aio/0]
root       149     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:28   0:00 [aio/1]
root       305     1 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [kirqd]
root       624     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [khubd]
root       669     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [ata/0]
root       670     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [ata/1]
root       671     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [ata_aux]
root       731     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [scsi_eh_0]
root       732     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:19    17:05:27   0:00 [scsi_eh_1]
root       824     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:20    17:05:20   0:00 [scsi_eh_2]
root      1130     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:20    17:05:17   0:02 [kjournald]
root      1743     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:20    17:05:15   0:00 [kpsmoused]
root      2016     9 S   -  0.0     0      0  18:20    17:05:07   0:00 [kmirrord]
root      2369     1 S   -  0.0   568   1624  18:20    17:05:04   0:02 /sbin/syslogd
root      3353     1 S   -  0.0   496   1576  18:20    17:04:45   0:00 /sbin/getty -f /etc/issue.linuxlogo 38400 tty1
root      3354     1 S   -  0.0   496   1576  18:20    17:04:45   0:00 /sbin/getty -f /etc/issue.linuxlogo 38400 tty2
root      3355     1 S   -  0.0   492   1572  18:20    17:04:45   0:00 /sbin/getty -f /etc/issue.linuxlogo 38400 tty3
root     11263 23782 R   -  0.1  2568   8124  10:49       35:55   0:00 sshd: root@pts/1
root     11275 11263 R   -  0.1  3612   7680  10:49       35:55   0:00 zsh -l
root     11931 23782 S   -  0.1  2568   8124  10:51       34:07   0:00 sshd: root@pts/2
root     11947 11931 S   -  0.1  2680   6116  10:51       34:06   0:00 zsh -l
root     11977 11947 S   -  0.0   488   3428  10:51       34:05   0:00 tail -f /var/log/mail.log
root     14598     1 S   -  0.0  1604   4816  11:08       16:25   0:00 /usr/lib/postfix/master
root     23782     1 S   -  0.0  1108   4928  08:17    03:08:20   0:00 /usr/sbin/sshd

--
 To the intelligent, life is infinitely mysterious.
 The stupid have an answer for every question.
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Wietse Venema
Andy Spiegl:

> And I just discovered that I can reproduce this behavior on servers
> with Debian 3.1 (sarge):
>
>  debian31:~#/etc/init.d/bind9 restart
>  Stopping domain name service: named.
>  Starting domain name service: named.
>
>  debian31:~#tailf /var/log/mail.log
> ...
>  May  9 11:34:01 debian31 postfix/postfix-script: refreshing the Postfix mail system
>  May  9 11:34:05 debian31 postfix/master[20563]: reload configuration
> ...
>  May  9 11:34:07 debian31 postfix/postfix-script: refreshing the Postfix mail system
>  May  9 11:34:07 debian31 postfix/master[20563]: reload configuration
> ...

What a braindead idea. Why not reboot the box, too.

        Wietse
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Andy Spiegl-7
> What a braindead idea. Why not reboot the box, too.
I agree.
  "Alert: You have moved your mouse. Please reboot to activate the changes!" :-)

But I still don't think that this was done on purpose.
If I'd understand who/what is doing this reload
then I'd know whom to send the bug report.

I can't find anything in the bind docs.

Thanks,
 Andy.

--
 Do Lipton employees take coffee breaks?
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Wietse Venema
Andy Spiegl:
> > What a braindead idea. Why not reboot the box, too.
> I agree.
>   "Alert: You have moved your mouse. Please reboot to activate the changes!" :-)
>
> But I still don't think that this was done on purpose.
> If I'd understand who/what is doing this reload
> then I'd know whom to send the bug report.
>
> I can't find anything in the bind docs.

Obviously, this is no longer a Postfix question, so the
people who know the answer are likely to be on the lists
that are devoted to your preferred operating system.

        Wietse
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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Bill Cole-3
In reply to this post by Andy Spiegl-7
At 12:13 PM +0200 5/9/08, Andy Spiegl wrote:

>>  What a braindead idea. Why not reboot the box, too.
>I agree.
>   "Alert: You have moved your mouse. Please reboot to activate the
>changes!" :-)
>
>But I still don't think that this was done on purpose.
>If I'd understand who/what is doing this reload
>then I'd know whom to send the bug report.
>
>I can't find anything in the bind docs.

You cited /etc/init.d/bind9, which is not part of ISC BIND v9 but
rather (probably) a shell script provided by whoever packaged your
installation.

Specifically:

At 11:42 AM +0200 5/9/08, Andy Spiegl wrote:
>Strange.  Here, "/etc/init.d/bind9 stop" or "... start" immediately
>leads to this line in the postfix log:
>   postfix/master[14598]: reload configuration /etc/postfix
>
>This happens even after I stop all services except postfix, bind and
>sshd on this machine (see process list below).  Setting back bind to
>its defaults didn't help either.

I would suggest that you look inside /etc/init.d/bind9, fix it,
figure out who wrote it, and avoid using any other software they have
a hand in...




--
Bill Cole
[hidden email]

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Re: why every minute: "reload configuration /etc/postfix" - SOLVED

Ralf Hildebrandt
* Bill Cole <[hidden email]>:

> You cited /etc/init.d/bind9, which is not part of ISC BIND v9 but rather
> (probably) a shell script provided by whoever packaged your installation.

I'm about to look at that box real soon now. Relax.
I hope I'll find it.
--
Ralf Hildebrandt ([hidden email])          [hidden email]
Postfix - Einrichtung, Betrieb und Wartung       Tel. +49 (0)30-450 570-155
http://www.arschkrebs.de
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